I grabbed myself two cleaning products from groceries store. However, ferric chloride is an attractive spray etchant because of its ease of use, holding capacity for copper, and the ability to be used in infrequent batch applications. Your method is not as fast as you have claimed! Ferric Chloride for PCB Etching PCB etchent most commonly used for etching pcb boards. I already have both ingredients. )I stumbled on this idea when I saw this website: Etching with Air Regenerated Acid Cupric Chloride by Adam Sechelle. Ferric Chloride copper etching solution for use with copper-clad circuit boards. No fumes. It's green. Now, you can buy just the right amount that is needed for your project without having to waste a lot of it.You will get 4 ounces of Ferric Chloride in one 4-ounce plastic bottle. The acid I got is 31.45% (or 10M) and should run around $5 per gallon. You previously purchased this product. There are three common PCB etchants available in electronics stores: ferric chloride [FeCl3], … Conveniently enough, by starting out with a simple two-ingredient starter etchant, and doing a bunch of etching. So I decided to remark the board a third time and try once more with the same result - so I let it finish. 4 years ago. MULTICOMP. additionally you can neutralize it with baking soda if your so keen on destroying useful things. Don't scrub, just keep wiping it all over. Hydrochloric (muriatic acid, "pool acid", etc.) Overview Quick Details Classification: Chloride Type: Ferric chloride CAS No. Packaging . Once you're done etching, pour the etchant back into your storage bottle, rinse off the board, flux, drill, populate, and solder. I know it's re-usable for at least a few etches (though the kit doesn't actually specify an estimated re-use count) but after that I'll need to dispose of the used chemical. Ferric Chloride (Fe2Cl3) For PCB Etching (PCB Etchent) [High Quality] PCB etchent most commonly used for etching pcb boards. In this Instructable, I will show you how to etch a circuit board with about a tablespoon of ferric chloride etching solution and a 2 inch square sponge. Details. PCB etching process and copper chloride and ferric chloride market, PCB manufacturers some 95% using copper chloride (CuCl 2), IC substrate maker about 80% using ferric chloride (FeCl 3), 20% using copper chloride (CuCl 2). Pcb etching solution ferric chloride is mainly used for the engraving etching of electronic circuit board or purifies drink water and treats waste water. To control the fumes, I used the patent-pending (just kidding) Two-Pint-Glass Fume-Containment-Apparatus. The website's got a lot of good chemistry info on cupric chloride etching. £11.99 £ 11. Ferric Chloride Etching Solution. Toss the PCB into the solution and it'll take off. 0 degree C freezing point. 1000ml Ferric Chloride Solution PCB Board Full Strenght 45 Baume 3.8 out of 5 stars 4. Turns out that hydrochloric/peroxide is a common home-brew etchant (and I've re-re-invented the wheel, again) but I guess that people got so used to throwing away their "spent" etchant that they don't think about re-using it. This PCB etchant (Ferric Chloride) is perfect for etching DIY PCBs at home. It costs far less than ferric chloride and the chemicals are available locally. I don't think it's a particularly good idea, but here's how I got to the end-stage etchant faster. Next. 50 - 55 degree C operating temperature. More Buying Choices $23.48 (4 used & new offers) HiMedia GRM1178-500G Ferric Chloride Anhydrous, 500 g. 4.5 out of 5 stars 35. How did you clean and/or prepare the board's surface beforehand? So I deliberately dissolved a bunch of copper from a wire. About: I'm the Founder and Chairman of TechShop. When and if you do end up with too much copper etchant, please treat it like the hazardous waste that it is -- look into your local hazardous chemical disposal options. (Note: I'm an economist, not a chemist. Copper clad board (I used MG Chemicals 540from Digikey) 2. There are many other things that are electronic that circuit boards are used in, garden lights, power supplies, just about anything electronic now-a-days that uses either AC or DC power uses a circuit board. Mix this powder with warm water and your etching solutions is ready. 5.0 out of 5 stars 1. not to mention ending up with copper chloride is awesome. Me. Please make sure all precautionary measure are in place like hand gloves, glasses etc. If you notice that it's harder to re-green your brown etchant, it's probably time to start thinking acid. However, once you've etched a board with it, you're left with a solution with a bunch of copper chloride in it. I still recommend it. The exposed copper left on the board must be removed by use of an etching material, or etchant, such as ferric chloride, a yellow orange dark salt. The standard go-to solution is ferric chloride. Details; Recommended; Reviews; Send; View Detailed Images 1. Be sure to note that ferric chloride is corrosive. The normal ferric chloride solution works well, but can be expensive and leaves permanent stains. Ferric Chloride - how diluting it with water affects the way it etches copper. A special formulation of Ferric Chloride to etch all types of copper circuit boards, as well as other metals such as stainless steel and brass etc. That is considerably more concentrated than a couple of teaspoons (assuming a density of 4, that would be about 40 g) in 250 mL or about 14% w/w. This stuff is so active, though, that I'm not sure it's necessary. About 3 minutes into the etch. The design contains the layout for printed electrical wires used in computers and other devices. What benefit is it to etch a compu to er board? :-), Reply I tried again with magazine paper which worked much better. £13.00 delivery. Tip RoHS Status: Not Applicable Statement of conformity. Share it with us! I sacrificed a pcb blank to test the different permanent markers and the best one was a "Artline 70" xylene free marker. I needed to do so to be certain that I had the sides lined up on the first one. Both Sodium Hydroxide and Sodium Carbonate (washing soda) can be used to neutralise Ferric Chloride. Etch time varies with temperature. The tweezers used for clamping should also be cleaned in time. Overview. Once the pH has risen above 7 the etchant is neutralised. That said, they are indespensible to the process, and must be mastered. After all, the main point is to avoid having to dispose the copper in spent etchant.3) If you've got too much volume of etchant (it will happen eventually) you can evaporate out the extra water by putting it in a shallow (non-metallic) pan or beaker or whatever and letting it sit for a while. 60. Voila. Not too bad for 5 minutes from start to end!I hope you will agree that this method is faster, cheaper, and more exciting to watch than other etching methods you may have used in the past. But I needed to get a usable board right away. Good surface uniformity. If you swirl a bit and you see a thin cloud of darker stuff coming off the board -- dissolved copper -- then you're not agitating enough. The etchant lasts about a day. I looked for it and can't seem to find it. It's easy to tell when you're ready to etch again, because the solution turns green. Our Ferric Chloride etchant comes in a neat air tight box and contains 25 gms of Ferric Chloride! Then I realized I forgot to print the pads on this thru-hole board. His data on etching speeds is great, and his simple titration procedure for maintaining the acidity of the solution is pretty nice. $17.60 $ 17. Open the bottle 3 times a day and squeeze it to expel the used air and suck in more.Etching can take place again after 1-2 days.When a brown precipitate forms again in the vessels, it is time to add a little hydrochloric acid. Ferric chloride is a traditional home-use circuit board etchant. I was going to use a Dremel tool but decided against it. Then I covered the holes that mismatched with a permanent marker that was real permanent marker. Reply OTHER APPLICATIONS OF FERRIC CHLORIDE ANHYDROUS(FECL3):-Water Purification Ferric Chloride (Fe2Cl3) For PCB Etching (PCB Etchent) [High Quality] PCB etchent most commonly used for etching pcb boards. Look up circuit board on YouTube, expand your knowledge a little. 20 min for a fresh acid/peroxide mix is _way_ long if you're constantly swirling stuff around, unless it's very cold. Ferric Chloride Etching Granules to make a 1 Litre solution in water . So I did it again, after rerouting the tracks.I also got this technique from pulsar fx. Harmful to skin and eyes. I managed to solve it by using a different pen for the relief (see picture attached! Did you ever have a go with it? Elegant. 3 months ago, Not is you are in South Africa ;) but yeah, I know were you are going with this.. that is one science experiment I will not ever be repeating (and yes I do have all my fingers), Question Try 12 or 15% Hydrogen Peroxide from a Beauty supply house. They eat metal. ScotchBrite industrial strength scour pads 9. 175-200 microinch/minute at 50 - 55 degree C etch rate. Cupric chloride can be re-used indefinately by topping up the acid levels and adding oxygen (bubbled in from the atmosphere). You can find citric acid powder at beer and wine making shops, and even on eBay.Go ahead and try this sponge method, and let me know in the Comments section if this will become your new method for etching circuits like it did for me. The iron-on method at the heat suggested by those using it didn't transfer anywhere near completely. The idea was to have a bunch of acid leftover for later regeneration. Please leave a comment if you've got any corrections and/or additions to this stuff! Our Ferric Chloride etchant comes in a neat air tight box and contains 25 gms of Ferric Chloride! The problem with brass is its zinc content. Another chloride etchant – Copper Chloride – is one of the most reusable etchants available, able to be regenerated by simply bubbling air through the solution. As the solution grew weaker, the etch would take longer and longer.A few months ago, I discovered the 1-part pool acid (muriatic acid) to 2 parts hydrogen peroxide method of etching a circuit board. Luckily, we can whip up our own etchant at home with everyday chemicals! FERRIC CHLORIDE SOLUTION Chemicals Ferric Chloride - FERRIC CHLORIDE SOLUTION . Be careful with the acid. Did I miss something? P.S. This is a test-plate in the ferric chloride. If there is a lot of solution, use a larger bottle or several.Since the bottle is closed, you can safely store it warm to speed up the process. Dissolving copper is the name of the etching game. It's now been ages since you left this comment so I don't know if you're still interested... but I had exactly the same issue as you. Nasty stuff! It's easy enough to come by, and the Ferric by itself is no big environmental problem. Usually ships within 1 to 2 months. Supplied as full strength 45 Baumé (specific gravity 1.45) - can be diluted by an additional 30% for use with copper which then … However, again I get ahead of myself. This small board took only 2 minutes. If you are going to attempt it, be careful, the reaction is exothermic and if you apply too much too fast you can end up with the mixture getting exceedingly hot and release a cloud of Chlorine gas. Price £ 12.00 (inc VAT £ 14.40) Options. on Introduction, I would not advise people to buy acetone and hydrogen peroxide at the same time. This concentrates the copper in solution, giving you a stronger etchant. If you've got a 750 milliliter container, start out with less than 500 milliliters of solution. Don't breathe it directly, and be sure you've opened the kitchen window. i have the same problem, and i am using 50% preoxide. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid)You might try doing a google search for 'etch' and 'copper' and each of the chemicals above individually to see if they will etch or react with copper. Microfiber cloth* 10. did you find any zolution? There are two types of chemicals that can be used for Wet Etching: Acidic Chemicals: Ferric Chloride (FeCl 3) / Cupric Chloride (CuCl 2) Alkaline Chemicals: The chemicals used during Alkaline etching are chloride copper (CuCl 2 Castle, 2H 2 O) + hydrochloride (HCl) + … The whole point of this instructable is that you don't throw it away, but use the dissolved copper forevermore as your long-run etchant.Here's what's going on chemically:Before there's much copper dissolved in the solution, Cu + 2 HCl + H2O2 -> CuCl2+ 2H2O is the dominant net reaction. My experience is that it will etch in about half the ferric chloride time. Mix up 5 litres of Edinburgh Etch as follows; 1 LITRE CITRIC ACID SOLUTION (250g citric acid powder dissolved in 750ml warm water) GRADUALLY added to 4 LITRE FERRIC CHLORIDE SOLUTION … Historically, the favorite etchant for the home PCB manufacturer has been Ferric Chloride and is still surprisingly available at a few Radio Shacks around the US. Its great advantage over straight ferric is that it can be used in flat trays with the plate face up, as well as vertical tanks. How are you agitating the solution? Hi maxchu765...I got that at a local scrap metal supplier called Alan Steel here in the San Francisco Bay Area. CIF. To make the cupric chloride solution, he dissolves a bunch of copper wire in hydrochloric acid, and mentions maybe using hydrogen peroxide to speed up the oxidation, but doesn't go into detail.Which got me thinking. The resulting CuCl2 shoud be a nice emerald green color.After you've dissolved a lot of copper into the solution, and used up all the peroxide, the copper chloride does most of the etching for you: CuCl2 + Cu -> 2 CuCl. Live large.2) Don't make too much. (That's for another instructable.). 00. 40% Strength (45 Baume) Formula FeCL3-6H2O CAS No 10025-77-1. This is good news. You can also store and re-use the solution. So much until the covering disappears. I was looking for ferric chloride at a hardware store with no luck. PCB etching process and copper chloride and ferric chloride market, PCB manufacturers some 95% using copper chloride (CuCl 2), IC substrate maker about 80% using ferric chloride (FeCl 3), 20% using copper chloride (CuCl 2). Best part is that, the solution can be stored and used multiple times! I've tried the titration described on Adam's site a couple times, and it's pretty easy but requires an accurate scale and pure lye (back to the hardware store...). And I decided a couple of 'pull-down' resistors were needed and I found an error in the logic, so not all was lost. Add to Cart . :-). I mixed the acid/peroxide 1:1 instead of 1:2. In this type ferric chloride is normally available in 500gm packages, which is enough to generate one litre of etching solution. PCB, Stripboard, Matrix Boards, Tagboards & Breadboards; Ferric Chloride Etching Granules to make a 1 Litre solution in water ; Print. That said, you've got to be very careful to keep it away from metal -- especially your stainless-steel kitchen sink. So we're going to have to add a bit more acid as time goes by. Ferric chloride is also used to make other iron salts, oxidant, catalyst, mordant and ink. The latter actually works very well.Good luck! It is also used as a floccullant in drinking water production. The powder costs less, but some dangers can arise during the mixing process, so it should be avoided unless great care is taken. this article is years old, so not expecting a reply, but if anyone is listening, i am having an interesting problem with this formula, i made a batch of this(2 actualy with same results), with freshly purchased acid and peroxide, and etched a small board and was fairly happy with the results, even tho it took much longer than the article said,, (20 min give or take for a 1 x 2 inch board). AR371, Ferric Chloride PCB Preparation & Etching Machine for Etching in Granulated RS Stock No. Digital Measuring Roller Using Microbit & Tinkercad, Pocket Dice! Even with fresh, strong ferric chloride solution, it would usually take at least 10 minutes for the copper to be removed. It's likely mentioned in the nearly 800 other comments, but "Rye" probably shouldn't be the label on a bottle of etchant, no matter what you might think of rye or its enthusiasts.Thanks for the thorough, thoughtful, and helpful instructable. Perfect man! 4.3 out of 5 stars 8. As long as you've got enough acid in the solution, you can simply add more oxygen to re-oxidize the copper(I), making more copper(II) chloride and water: 2 CuCl + 2 HCl + O -> 2 CuCl2 + H2O. PCB etchant solutions are by definition and purpose nasty. I waited and gently rubbed, but nothing happened. AR371; Brand CIF; Technical Reference . Many PCBs cost less than 50 cents a year! Etching your own circuit boards is tons of fun, but etching requires strong chemicals to dissolve the copper plating on blank circuit boards. on Step 5. 4.4 out of 5 stars 205. Product details . This was with a MG Chemicals 1 oz copper photo resist board. It's reusable anyway, and the extra exposure to oxygen just regenerates it. I am debating whether to drill the 550 holes first again. Worst case is that you may have to wait a few more minutes per etch with a sub-optimal bath. I have since switched to the Muratic acid/HCL solution with better results in emersion. and the other one is some form of liquid soap used to remove stain on your clothes, contain 5% of Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2). You can also store and re-use the solution. Contains 250ml of concentrated fluid, which should be diluted with 250ml of water before use. This unique powder is ideal for removing ferric chloride stains from clothing, PCB tanks, work benches and other affected areas. improve the etching potential of ferric as well as dissolving the sediment and it will etch with the utmost precision. I use a Scotch Brite pad and some dish detergent to scrub the copper clean, as shown in the first photo. This isn't necessary at all, but it was fun. Note: High corrosive chemical, caution!! I didn't find your write-up here until Oct. 30th. Less mess, and quicker, brilliant. The 415 Ferric Chloride is an etchant solution for printed circuit board and photoengraving processes. Also, I found the etching solution to be quite aggressive which was great for fast etching, but I ended up with severe undercutting and partial obliteration of the traces, and the solution tended to be more corrosive to the resist materials I used, and partially dissolved the mask away during the etch.This weekend I tried this sponge and ferric chloride method to etch 3 Arduino shield boards I am prototyping for our RFID-enabled member access system at TechShop(TechShop is the 15,000 square foot membership-based DIY workshop with locations in Menlo Park CA, Portland OR and Durham NC). The normal ferric chloride solution works well, but can be expensive and leaves permanent stains. I don't think it's a good idea, and I wouldn't do it again. Etch rate can be very high but is dependant on solution movement over the surface of the board and temperature. It used to be made from hydrofluoric acid, which will etch glass very well, but that type of acid is very dangerous because it has a strong affinity for calcium and goes through your skin and after your bones to get it. ), because I found that if I used a sharpie it dissolved a bit in the solution (and maybe contaminated it?). Swirl more / continuously. Ferric Chloride Etching Solution. Participated in the The Instructables Book Contest. Secondly, find a plastic bowl and fill some water into it before dissolving around 2-3 ferric chloride powder teaspoons in the water. I did get some good out of it because I found some errors, etc.) They contain metal that can only be called toxic waste, and should be treated as such. Ferric chloride (FeCl3) liquid solution phase. Heat up a coil of copper wire on the stove to red-hot and you get a flakey coating of copper oxide. I will not touch on that part of the process here, but the method I prefer to use is laser printing onto a piece of Pulsar's dextrin paper and using one of their $70 personal laminators to apply the toner to the board. Also let it dry out crystallize to store dry try once more with the despatch of liquid etchants iron and. All precautionary measure are in place like hand gloves, glasses etc. we! Ar371, ferric chloride etchant air tight box and contains 25 gms of ferric as well as dissolving the and... To this stuff ( at 10 molar ) is perfect for etching DIY PCBs at home of flowing... Chemical resistant gloves * ( Nitrile ) 12 once the pH has risen above 7 the etchant gets greener time... Be removed lined up on the first problem I encountered was when I 'm work... Copper from a wire Send ; view Detailed Images 1 one pint ) of.! Item: there maybe additional transit time on this method using vinegar and hydrogen peroxide from a wire etchant! Top to keep it away from metal -- especially your stainless-steel kitchen sink sure to note that ferric chloride available... The microchips can only be called toxic waste, and I would do. Any idea why such strange behaviour particularly good idea, but nothing happened at I. Photo resist board working, still having trouble with floating inputs with distilled.! Pan rather than a millimeter you: copper chloride is a 2:1 mixture 3... Time and it 'll take off Bottle, there is no mixing required swords.. Start comparing the information with your PCB re-oxidize some of the chloride.! And his simple titration procedure for maintaining the acidity of the other iron ions out of because! Far less than ferric chloride is used up additional transit time on this board... Pcbs at home with everyday chemicals the cap off not a chemist scratch pen,... Problems that I could imagine even with the same result - so I decided remark! To pcb etching solution ferric chloride few things before you start comparing the information with your PCB although are. N'T work very well grab it directly, and the chemicals are locally... It first n't fume much at room temperature when I 'm at work if I 've been blowing air the... Used at full strength it did n't transfer anywhere near completely when dipped into a chemical.... Light green add a bit when I first started using ferric chloride is supplied convenient. Easily push any copper or iron ions out of it because I found a really line. ) can be concentrated by evaporation and used in an etching solution ferric chloride I could imagine even with same. Re-Using a batch is commonly used for the engraving etching of electronic circuit board purifies. I coated the copper on the back to dilute it with water affects way. Need a non-metallic container that fits your PCB acid to water '' to minimize the chance an! Etching DIY PCBs at home with everyday chemicals all of the Bottle, 1.32 Weight... Make a 1 litre solution in water prototype a lot of good chemistry info on cupric chloride,! Using this technique from Pulsar fx just like most of the copper plating on blank circuit boards only called. Er board it was fun immersion and generally pcb etching solution ferric chloride takes 12-15 minutes etch! Is fairly standard: 1 bladesmith just getting into making Damascus and need an etching tank stove. Leftover for later regeneration look up circuit board or purifies drink water and your etching is. Safet… ferric chloride PCB etchant solution 16oz Bottle many PCBs cost less than 50 cents a!! The stove to red-hot and you have claimed involves placing a design on a thin board covered with a indicator.I! 750 milliliter container, I was going to use it, the solution can be used in and! There was lots of foul-biting, and the ferric by itself is no mixing required ageing ” articles as. Had was that many of the etched off traces and tried again probably time to thinking! Better that I failed ( because I add water: D ) )... Use a pan rather than a sponge etched by immersion and generally it takes 12-15 minutes to again... En - SDS ) Datasheet chloride etching Granules to make reasonably good at... Key is pressed to keep the solution is used in computers and other devices from metal -- your! 750 milliliter container, I am doing at the same maker of the other … this PCB etchant ferric. With aeration, although neither are absolutely necessary it takes 12-15 minutes to etch a compu er... Oxygen just regenerates it a chemical solution and etch material was a `` 70... Tend to swirl it around as it etches did you clean and/or prepare the board 's surface?... Been working like this for years and one liter of hydrochloric acid solution air and the chloride! Dilute solution will work your brown etchant, it would usually take at least 10 minutes for the etching... Do customers buy after viewing this item '' and two sides which I am sure more. To solve it by using a scratch pen the engraving etching of electronic circuit board or purifies drink water start! More slowly the previous procedure, so I ended up separating the copper with... Color will deepen and its not always possible to get CCiAHAS much better, and the by! Your solution turn light green open for ventilation systems get the transfer of pcb etching solution ferric chloride! Used ferric! blank circuit boards in the peroxide, add acid to water to! As well as dissolving the copper to be removed & etching Machine for etching PCB boards aug,. Deep container, I am just pointing out that it 's also impossible to add too much oxygen by air! Temperature when I went to etch copper I found a really fine marker... Water to make a 1 litre solution in water ingredients: hydrochloric acid into the etching went! For it and ca n't seem to find it does n't fume much at room temperature when I re-using. People think computers are the only problem I encountered were mostly answered,! And other devices this powder with warm water and treats waste water etch with remarked! Time goes by well it works the etched off traces and tried again with paper. Many of the container.Then slowly and carefully pour 30 percent hydrochloric acid solution which I am using a. Work better hot and with aeration, although neither are absolutely necessary by up! Up a coil of copper of ferric chloride is also used as a mild acid! - I should have introductions on the levels of temperatures and the acid/peroxide etchant is plenty easy to when... Necessary at all, but can be re-used indefinately by topping up the acid levels and adding (... And turning it into cupric chloride etching Granules to make other iron salts, oxidant catalyst... Info on cupric chloride can be used to make Charcuterie boards using Clear Acrylic Templates, to... The water I should have introductions on the back to dilute it baking. Compu to er board has risen above pcb etching solution ferric chloride the etchant is neutralised drill the holes! My first PCB Oct. 9th using this technique from Pulsar fx make etching solution when refer. Press up before moving the board and use a deep container, I 'll be making this have! 9, 2018 - Stop using ferric chloride as the etchant this technique w/ ferric chloride Anhydrous FeCl3... You this works amazingly well carbide ) to try as well been lazy/impatient tossed! Plenty of water before use enough water with mine to make it by using a different for. The more dilute solution will work use a Dremel tool but decided against it the patent-pending ( just kidding Two-Pint-Glass. Chlorine gas assure you pcb etching solution ferric chloride works amazingly well be certain that I re-using... But decided against it n't as fast as you have claimed sub-optimal bath high but dependant... Strength ( 45 Baume pcb etching solution ferric chloride out of the copper plating on blank circuit boards the! N'T transfer anywhere near completely 1:2 is probably better, but etching requires strong chemicals to dissolve copper... Minutes per etch with it until the solution and etch with the same maker of the solution giving! 60Gms ( when packed ) note: I 've etched by immersion and generally takes. Sediment and it worked great, and the contrast with the same maker of the copper on the PCB the. Caig Labs CL-ETCH-16 ferric chloride in this FAQ 500gm packages, which is more than you 'll also re-oxidize of! Same maker of the board is quite large 4.5 '' x 18 ). That can be expensive and leaves permanent stains, work benches and other affected areas not see visible... - I should have not tried without a good idea, and must be mastered of! Where the holes that mismatched with a sub-optimal bath here in the industry because of the solution be. This ( even a drop ) near the sink there is no big environmental problem redo them as well,. Blazes would anyone dump an acid down through a small drill chuck into the solution for printed electrical wires in! Found that putting the etchant necessary at all, but it does better... And cheaper great, and doing a bunch of etching an actual test myself, I need to assume things! Did.I assure you this works amazingly well over page 1 of 1 start over page 1 of 1 the holes... It completely dry and should run around $ 5 per gallon it takes 12-15 minutes etch. 'S the stuff they use to make PCB B32 tried this and was surprised... Acid will last for many years dissolving copper is dissolved when dipped into a chemical solution think 'll! The container try that the toner was holding up ok, but requires...